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	<title>Comments on: NatureToolkit Update: Genetic Algorithms and Parameter Estimation for SuperCollider</title>
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	<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider</link>
	<description>...adding to noise...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 15:59:36 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Patrick Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Flanagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-478</guid>
		<description>Hi Batuhan, 

A quick search for &quot;timbral descriptors&quot; turned up a working paper from IRCAM that I think is pretty useful: http://recherche.ircam.fr/projects/cuidado/wg/management/deliverables/IRCAM_WP215_M2.pdf. The summary lists the following parameters as the most salient: spectral centroid, the spectral spread, the spectral deviation, the effective duration and attack time and finally roughness and fluctuation strength. The paper also mentions that for harmonic sounds, F0s must be set to be identical before comparisons can be made. It looks like someone at IRCAM used the results of this paper to put together a web application that computes timbral distances. See http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/cuidado/Timbre.php3.

I won&#039;t have time to experiment with your code for a while, but when I do, I&#039;ll let you know if I try to integrate some of these findings into the fitness function.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Batuhan, </p>
<p>A quick search for &#8220;timbral descriptors&#8221; turned up a working paper from IRCAM that I think is pretty useful: <a href="http://recherche.ircam.fr/projects/cuidado/wg/management/deliverables/IRCAM_WP215_M2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://recherche.ircam.fr/projects/cuidado/wg/management/deliverables/IRCAM_WP215_M2.pdf</a>. The summary lists the following parameters as the most salient: spectral centroid, the spectral spread, the spectral deviation, the effective duration and attack time and finally roughness and fluctuation strength. The paper also mentions that for harmonic sounds, F0s must be set to be identical before comparisons can be made. It looks like someone at IRCAM used the results of this paper to put together a web application that computes timbral distances. See <a href="http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/cuidado/Timbre.php3" rel="nofollow">http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/cuidado/Timbre.php3</a>.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t have time to experiment with your code for a while, but when I do, I&#8217;ll let you know if I try to integrate some of these findings into the fitness function.</p>
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		<title>By: Batuhan</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Batuhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Hey Patrick, thanks a lot!

Yes, I&#039;ll be investigating &quot;smarter&quot; fitness functions. Since the system is modular, it&#039;s easy to switch the fitness function, even on the fly for multistage GA. Fitness funcs. based on psychoacoustics are especially interesting because they will most likely converge to perceptually better sounds in smaller time. It will probably narrow the search space considerably, yielding to more satisfactory and interesting results.

And for anyone reading this, I could use any help. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Patrick, thanks a lot!</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ll be investigating &#8220;smarter&#8221; fitness functions. Since the system is modular, it&#8217;s easy to switch the fitness function, even on the fly for multistage GA. Fitness funcs. based on psychoacoustics are especially interesting because they will most likely converge to perceptually better sounds in smaller time. It will probably narrow the search space considerably, yielding to more satisfactory and interesting results.</p>
<p>And for anyone reading this, I could use any help. <img src='http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Flanagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-468</guid>
		<description>Outstanding, inspiring work. I&#039;ve dreamed for several years of doing something similar that would use machine learning to fit the parameters and wave tables of a wave terrain synthesizer to produce any arbitrary example sound. But I like this approach because it preserves the character of individual synth designs; it&#039;s interesting when a synth comes close but fails to reproduce a target sound. After all, if you wanted the exact target sound, you could use a sampler. 

My only suggestion would be using a more sophisticated fitness function, one based on psychoacoustics. For instance, we know that the attack part of a sound has a disproportionate influence on its perceived character; a fitness function could overweight the attack to reflect this insight. Please keep blogging and sharing your work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outstanding, inspiring work. I&#8217;ve dreamed for several years of doing something similar that would use machine learning to fit the parameters and wave tables of a wave terrain synthesizer to produce any arbitrary example sound. But I like this approach because it preserves the character of individual synth designs; it&#8217;s interesting when a synth comes close but fails to reproduce a target sound. After all, if you wanted the exact target sound, you could use a sampler. </p>
<p>My only suggestion would be using a more sophisticated fitness function, one based on psychoacoustics. For instance, we know that the attack part of a sound has a disproportionate influence on its perceived character; a fitness function could overweight the attack to reflect this insight. Please keep blogging and sharing your work!</p>
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		<title>By: Batuhan</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Batuhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-452</guid>
		<description>isjtar, thanks a lot for letting me know. :)

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isjtar, thanks a lot for letting me know. <img src='http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: isjtar</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>isjtar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-451</guid>
		<description>Very impressive Batuhan! I might use your libs in some of my future work, will let you know if I do.
Liked your contribution to the sc tweets too btw.
Thanks for sharing all this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very impressive Batuhan! I might use your libs in some of my future work, will let you know if I do.<br />
Liked your contribution to the sc tweets too btw.<br />
Thanks for sharing all this.</p>
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		<title>By: Fitness functions for GA&#8217;s to learn Sound &#171; A.Pander&#8217;s Musical Journal</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Fitness functions for GA&#8217;s to learn Sound &#171; A.Pander&#8217;s Musical Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-393</guid>
		<description>[...]    EarSlap (aka Batuhan Bozkurt) released a GA lib for SuperCollider recently. I hadn&#8217;t thought about AiI techniques in a long time but associating it in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]    EarSlap (aka Batuhan Bozkurt) released a GA lib for SuperCollider recently. I hadn&#8217;t thought about AiI techniques in a long time but associating it in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Batuhan</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Batuhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Jorge, thank you.

CpILL, as I&#039;ve mentioned above, the example code I&#039;ve used in the video is included in the documentation (GAPmatch help). The fitness function is tricky, it uses an UGen I&#039;ve coded in C for the purpose. It compares the MSE distance between complex spectrums of the source and synthesized sound and the MSE distance becomes the similarity rating therefore the output of the fitness function (lower is better). I&#039;ll let you know when the paper describing the internals is published.

Here is a paper by Ricardo A. Garcia where he grows sound synthesis graphs (instead of parameters to fixed synthesizer graphs), I use the same similarity rating formula, but discard the phase:
http://galileo.cincom.unical.it/Music/workshop/articoli/garcia.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jorge, thank you.</p>
<p>CpILL, as I&#8217;ve mentioned above, the example code I&#8217;ve used in the video is included in the documentation (GAPmatch help). The fitness function is tricky, it uses an UGen I&#8217;ve coded in C for the purpose. It compares the MSE distance between complex spectrums of the source and synthesized sound and the MSE distance becomes the similarity rating therefore the output of the fitness function (lower is better). I&#8217;ll let you know when the paper describing the internals is published.</p>
<p>Here is a paper by Ricardo A. Garcia where he grows sound synthesis graphs (instead of parameters to fixed synthesizer graphs), I use the same similarity rating formula, but discard the phase:<br />
<a href="http://galileo.cincom.unical.it/Music/workshop/articoli/garcia.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://galileo.cincom.unical.it/Music/workshop/articoli/garcia.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: CpILL</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>CpILL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-391</guid>
		<description>IS there any chance of getting the examples you use in the video? I&#039;m interested in how you did your fitness function?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IS there any chance of getting the examples you use in the video? I&#8217;m interested in how you did your fitness function?</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Vazquez</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Vazquez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Congratulations for your classes!

And very nice video demonstration!

Pretty impressive!

Thank you Batuhan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations for your classes!</p>
<p>And very nice video demonstration!</p>
<p>Pretty impressive!</p>
<p>Thank you Batuhan!</p>
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		<title>By: Uğur Güney</title>
		<link>http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/news/naturetoolkit-update-genetic-algorithms-and-parameter-estimation-for-supercollider/comment-page-1#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>Uğur Güney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.batuhanbozkurt.com/?p=471#comment-383</guid>
		<description># Batuhan, bu harika olmuş!
# Hep, karmaşık sentezleme algoritmaları kullanmak yerine, muhtelif basit algoritmaların karmaşık kontrol mekanizmalarıyla çalıştırılmalarının müzikal ses üretimi açısından daha uygun olduğunu düşünürüm. Sen bunun muhteşem bir örneğin veriyorsun.
# Tebrik ederim. Ben deneyemedim (Windows&#039;ta quark yükleme işine henüz bulaşmadım) ama; Ellerine sağlık!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># Batuhan, bu harika olmuş!<br />
# Hep, karmaşık sentezleme algoritmaları kullanmak yerine, muhtelif basit algoritmaların karmaşık kontrol mekanizmalarıyla çalıştırılmalarının müzikal ses üretimi açısından daha uygun olduğunu düşünürüm. Sen bunun muhteşem bir örneğin veriyorsun.<br />
# Tebrik ederim. Ben deneyemedim (Windows&#8217;ta quark yükleme işine henüz bulaşmadım) ama; Ellerine sağlık!</p>
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